Curse

russiansteven · Dec 07, 2010, 12:54 AM // 00:54

I was wondering if this bar would be useful for when the 7 hero update gets released to use with discord:

Assassins Promise
Augury of death
Black Lotus Strike
Black spider strike
Blinding Powder
Deaths Charge
Expose defenses
Res

If not, what should I fix? Thanks

Bandwagon · Dec 07, 2010, 05:39 AM // 05:39

If your going to use Discordway (7 heroes or 3) you will be more successful using a caster DA - Assassin, then a physical. This is not to say that a physical Sin Promise doesn't work with discord (it can manage), but you will get a lot more mileage, and require a lot less micro (which is the whole reason why your using discord in the 1st place, right?) by running a caster set up with OP PvE only skills. If you want to run physical, I would not recommend Discord. (try Sabway or Spiritway / YourOwnway)

The standard (assuming PvX is the standard) Assassin primary Disco Caller utilizes:

12+1+1 in Deadly Arts
12 in another attribute (the floor is open since your using a Sin Primary)
Promise
Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support
"You Move Like a Dwarf"
"Finish Him"

and 4 skills of your choice (I recommend Curses for Barbs, Mark of Pain and Rigor Mortis / Defile Denses. Defile Defenses / Parasitic Bond are great cover hexes for the easily removable Assassin's Promise.

I would not recommend a rez for the human player when H/Hing, the henchies already supply rezzes (some of them are hard rezzes) and there are enough spots on 1-2 of your heroes for a hard rez as well. Rezzes should not be something you should expect to use, with practise, your team will not need any/ minimal resurrections. TLDR: don't waste a slot for a rez when all your henchmen, and some/ all of your heroes are sporting one.

AndrewSX · Dec 07, 2010, 07:23 AM // 07:23

If you're a physical and still want to use discord (instead of sab or spirit), trow in asura scan: it's an hex, cheap, no cast time and buff your own damage....just bring some skill to inflict any condition(sin dgger mastery line if plenty of options for this purpouse). Finally, i'd change the elite(moebius strike for example) and replace the res:there are your heroes for it.

Klance · Dec 07, 2010, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Just a few general points and criticisms.

1. You should leave rezzing to your heroes, its generally a waste of a skill slot.
2. You lack an IAS (critical agility for sins is the best).
3. You have a lead attack, an off-hand but not a dual attack, i recommend death blossom or critical strike.
4. If you MUST have some form of defensive skill (i would recommend leaving defense for heroes) then critical agility is far better than blinding powder.
5. If there are many blockers then bring defile defenses/rigour mortis on heroes, if there are no enemies that block than expose defenses is wasted.
6. More PvE skills - Your a physical attacker, use asuran scan.

russiansteven · Dec 07, 2010, 10:41 PM // 22:41

I guess it might have been useful to point out that I would be running this on a assassin hero (Anton or Zenmai)

End · Dec 08, 2010, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by russiansteven

I would be running this on a assassin hero (Anton or Zenmai)

Don't just...don't...

Melee AI sucks...
AI using the Black strikes from what I remember is worse...
AI using AP is just...wrong...

Klance · Dec 08, 2010, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Running a melee sin is not a good idea, at least not until they fix the AI.

Melee AI is already quite poor, but assassin heroes seem unable to use dagger chains properly. Personally I also find that they don't use AP well either.

If you must use a sin, then give them a bow or spear, if you insist on using daggers, i would suggest that you stay away from complex dagger chains (maybe just concentrate on buffs and locust fury auto attacks).

russiansteven · Dec 09, 2010, 01:15 AM // 01:15

So basically, you guys are saying that running a melee is about as bad as a clown going on a date...still in his suit?

Even when John Stumme (If that's spelled correctly) Announced that they will be fixing Melee AI, hopefully by the time 7 heroes are released?

If so, Please help me decide what other hero I should add to this group:

Me
Discordway (3 necros)
Spriritway (2 rit)
Earth Shaker (1) (Thinking about adding comfort animal and feral aggresion for mass mob attack)

(Pick one that will offer hexes to support Discordway, no healing though because I'm sure discordway and spiritway have me covered (Did I mention Olias is not discord and he's running a AoTL build with well of blood?) Or, if you think something else fills in the spot that's better than someone offering hexes, feel free to shoot a profession/hero out with a build and describe it thoroughly please (I'm not the brightest in the crayon box when it comes to build making and heroes)

Thank you in advance!

(Btw, leave your character name below if your comfortable with me pming you in-game and asking for in-game help)

End · Dec 09, 2010, 02:13 AM // 02:13

1)Odds are even though they will fix the main part of melee ai...they probably will overlook AI's Issue with skill chains. Esspecially the black skill chains. It will be more along the lines of the basic Issues common to all melee that they will probably look at.

2) Mesmer. Just about any build will give the hex support your looking for. But keep in mind while we could get into a big argument about whether discord sucks or is awesome and all. It will always be better if the human is slapping on the hex and condition. But as it stands mesmer have hexes comming out the ass and can currently put out a good amount of damage.

Klance · Dec 09, 2010, 03:02 AM // 03:02

If your looking for some form of hex i agree that you should run a mesmer in the last slot.

Something along the lines of Panic, Unnatural Signet, Mistrust, Chaos Storm, Wastral's Demise, Pdrain, WnWn, Leech Signet.

Rites · Jan 07, 2011, 04:15 AM // 04:15

i kinda disagree with the whole melee AI crap everyone is talking about. my melee heros do fine, its the henchmen that have buggy AI

my zemnai runs a basic moebius chain with death blossom, doesn't always get full combo off, but she does her job

_Aphotic_ · Jan 07, 2011, 05:56 AM // 05:56

First off I need to establish this:
Melee AI IS crap.
BUT
Damage from Melee Skills > Damage from Everything Else (ANY DAY OF THE WEEK)

Back to the topic...
You can run anything you want, and your builds certainly work.
Your choice in builds is certainly GOOD but not GREAT.
There is little synergy between you and your teammates.

-You yourself want to run a Sin Dagger build with good e-management. Yours works. But you should STRONGLY consider adding more damage dealing skills.
-Your Discord Necros will receive over-amounts of energy by all the dying minions/spirits. BUT, you could also replace one of the necros with a Curses Necro and consider running Barbs/Mark of Pain to further increase Melee efficiency (and you are a sin and bringing a warrior and have lots of minions).
-Your overall team build seems to focus on "I have superior numbers in PvE"... which is interesting because you must both watch out not to aggro but don't have to worry about you or your heroes getting attacked.
-Hex Removal would be epic. Although, you're over indulgent healers would probably be willing to heal you until that crappy hex wears off.....
(If you choose to bring a Mesmer, Panic is great, but so is E-Surge if you know how to maintain a Mesmer's energy with an appropriate amount of Inspiration Magic skills)
-Your choice of hero set-up is starting to make me think PvE is going to become way tooooo easy (now I'm really hoping ANet ups the difficulty of PvE)
-BTW Well of Blood is COMPLETE waste of potential minions, and almost completely useless (the healing done by it is almost completely negligible).

All in all...
Running Melee Heroes will be WORTH it.
As a sin, you should know all about being overpowered as a melee'er.